"BethieBoots332" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"BethieBoots332" wrote:

Well, there's plankton (very small creatures) in the sea that have very similar abilities to fish, which gives scientists the impression that they evolved into fish!




(does this help?)

Common Creatures, or creatures who have alot in common, institute a common engineer.  

Cool, even though I have no idea what that means C:

It means that since things are similiar, then we can think that God made things to be similiar. He used plans that worked for the animals and people he wanted to create, why change something that works? 

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"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

Flu shots. 

Ah..i love that one

The bodys ability to learn how to fight an illness is not evolution. Its adapting to its bio-surroundings. Try again.



Its kind of like when a bug grows resistence to a certain pesticide. Its adapting to survive. Not evolving over time into more complex beings. And also, alot of your bugs dont pass down pesticide resistance in a benefitiary amount. Usualy less is carried down. If the oppisite were true, Id say wed be praticly waging war with super-bugs. 

That's not even what I meant. But, it actually is an example of evolution. Evolution and adaptation are practically synonymous in Biology. When  a species adapts to survive against something it has become a more complex organism. 

I meant the fact that you need a new flu shot every year is a good example of evolution, because the flu virus (and viruses in general) mutate constantly. 

Ah..so evolution is when something becomes more complex? Thats like syaing Christianity is when someone does the right thing. Evolution has its own belief system, but yes in evolution it includes the truth that things become more adaptable and complex, but that doesent turn them into different animals all togather. I mean all the bug is doing is using what it ALREADY has to adapt. Nothing new is being added, its the system that the bug has to fend off a pesticide. Kind of like whe we learn. Were not evolving are we? The bug is learning how to survive, i mean sure its not they go to mortality school or anything but they have some God Goven system that at least mimics learning.  But back to my main point, Evolution isnt just when an animal becomes more complex. It has to account for its origin, and if weve dug up an evolving species in the making. Just like in christianity, its not just the doing good stuff, its the scientific and historical understanding as it has held up for thousands of years since the beginning stages of time.

And you know, we mutate alot too....not like we evolve.


Thank You. 

I really think you overestimate what evolution is, so I'll reexplain it. 

Evolution, in strict biological terms, is the change in allele frequency over time. By this definition, evolution is an indisputable fact. Kind of like gravity. You have gravity as an undeniable fact, and you have gravity as a theory. The theory of gravity has the same goal as the theory of evolution. Explaining why gravity exists, and why it behaves the way it does. The theory of evolution explains very well that not only did life evolve, but it tells us through what processes, like natural selection, artificial selection, mutation, and genetic drift. If you want to debate against the theory of evolution, you need to debate against the ideas of mutation, genetic drift, natural selection, and artificial selection. 

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"-Zachary-" wrote:

 but that doesent turn them into different animals all togather.

Yes it does. It's why we can look into the fossil record and see ancient fish growing legs over millions of years until they're finally ready to live on land. Then they continue to evolve as competition arises, gaining abilities like flight, or more passive things like fur for warmth. 

Cool, i would love to see a fossil with fish legs..see thing is evolutionists either say that we havent found any evidence like that, or that we cant because they didnt survive long enough to be fossilized. And this is real world debates that i have been to. Not making it up.
But we do have fossils with a fish eating a fish, and ones with grass on a mammoths tusk. Or ones with red cells still on a dino.

The bug is learning how to survive, i mean sure its not they go to mortality school or anything but they have some God Goven system that at least mimics learning.

What... no, what? Evolution is not a directed process at all. Selective breeding, sure, making different types of dogs and such. But it has nothing to do with what the animal WANTS. You can't WANT to evolve, and suddenly start evolving. It occurs out of mutation, which is entirely random, and then takes millions of years to achieve some extreme results, like turning from a completely sea-based animal into one that can walk on land. Doesn't take nearly as long for traits that already exist (like moths being colored) to adapt to their environment and flourish while the other, less advantageous colored moth dies off.

Did i ever say it wants to? Thats why i uesd the mortality school thing. And Zach, thats adapting to your sourroundings. I'll say it one ill say it again. Survival of The Fittest, not Arrival of The Fittest. They were already black moths existing, they didnt just turn black, they were already black. Got it?

And you know, we mutate alot too.... its not like we evolve.

We do evolve. It just happens extremely slowly, as it always has. The extreme vast majority of mutations are really, really, really bad. 

And yet..out of all of those bad mutations, one or two come in. And we get this one cell, that makes it way past all of htis to grow legs, and then  a tail. Without it being utterly destroyed from the start or early stages. And remember i said utterly.

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"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

Flu shots. 

Ah..i love that one

The bodys ability to learn how to fight an illness is not evolution. Its adapting to its bio-surroundings. Try again.



Its kind of like when a bug grows resistence to a certain pesticide. Its adapting to survive. Not evolving over time into more complex beings. And also, alot of your bugs dont pass down pesticide resistance in a benefitiary amount. Usualy less is carried down. If the oppisite were true, Id say wed be praticly waging war with super-bugs. 

That's not even what I meant. But, it actually is an example of evolution. Evolution and adaptation are practically synonymous in Biology. When  a species adapts to survive against something it has become a more complex organism. 

I meant the fact that you need a new flu shot every year is a good example of evolution, because the flu virus (and viruses in general) mutate constantly. 

Ah..so evolution is when something becomes more complex? Thats like syaing Christianity is when someone does the right thing. Evolution has its own belief system, but yes in evolution it includes the truth that things become more adaptable and complex, but that doesent turn them into different animals all togather. I mean all the bug is doing is using what it ALREADY has to adapt. Nothing new is being added, its the system that the bug has to fend off a pesticide. Kind of like whe we learn. Were not evolving are we? The bug is learning how to survive, i mean sure its not they go to mortality school or anything but they have some God Goven system that at least mimics learning.  But back to my main point, Evolution isnt just when an animal becomes more complex. It has to account for its origin, and if weve dug up an evolving species in the making. Just like in christianity, its not just the doing good stuff, its the scientific and historical understanding as it has held up for thousands of years since the beginning stages of time.

And you know, we mutate alot too....not like we evolve.


Thank You. 

I really think you overestimate what evolution is, so I'll reexplain it. 

Evolution, in strict biological terms, is the change in allele frequency over time. By this definition, evolution is an indisputable fact. Kind of like gravity. You have gravity as an undeniable fact, and you have gravity as a theory. The theory of gravity has the same goal as the theory of evolution. Explaining why gravity exists, and why it behaves the way it does. The theory of evolution explains very well that not only did life evolve, but it tells us through what processes, like natural selection, artificial selection, mutation, and genetic drift. If you want to debate against the theory of evolution, you need to debate against the ideas of mutation, genetic drift, natural selection, and artificial selection. 

Maybe, MAYBE in the strictist of biological terms somewhere down the line does evolution pick up the definitionw hich it does not mean. Because Zach is going on about "Evolution is this" and "Evolutionis that" yet he said nothing about alleles. So what is it then? Is it Adaptation? Planet of The Apes? Soup People?  Origin or Species? Racisim? What is it exactly?

---

[quote]
Your giving me the definition of Natural Selecion, but insisting adaptation means evolution. Just like what i told Skits, Evolution must account for its origin and so does Natural Selection. In my opinion we got Natural Selection and Common Ancestor fro The Flood. [/quote]

Because adaptation means evolution. This is not up for debate. " Evolution is the change in the inherited characteristics of biological populations over successive generations." The changes arise from mutation, which are then sorted out by natural selection, leading species to either live or die. Adaptation is simply a mutation that is beneficial for the animal to have, so they continue to reproduce. They have been naturally selected to continue their existences. 

Look.

Mutation: Random change in an animal's genetics. 
Trait: Inherited characteristic.
Natural selection: Animals that have traits that are suited to living in whichever environment they live in, survive. Animals that don't have traits that are suited to living in whichever environment they live in, die.
Adaptation: An animal that has undergone mutation, leading to new traits that are best suited for survival in that environment, has adapted to the environment. Has nothing to do with the animal's desires.
Evolution: Change in inherited characteristics of species over many generations.

Mutation -> New traits -> Animal is either killed off, or left to thrive via natural selection -> If it was left to thrive, it has adapted

[quote]Wheres a benefitial mutation witnessed by scientists? Or this "tool giving".
/quote]

Opposable thumbs? Sickle cell? Eyes? Ears? Our brains? 

[quote]
Thats funny, because Uranium 233 has nothing to do with fossil indication.[/quote]

k. I'm trying to get through this while bearing your limited understanding of evolution. I really don't want to nit-pick at every single point you get wrong, because everything you are saying is wrong.

[quote]
Then why is it still a theoretical? Why are their scientists who are still young earth creationists?[/quote]

You don't know what a scientific theory is. Look it up. 

For the same reason that there are still scientists that are Muslim, or Hindu. Dogma instilled into them that they believe is irrefutably true. 

[quote] And please show me a mother nature made evolution[/quote]

What lol

[quote]that we have observed happening./quote]

You've been given so many examples already.

[quote]Yeah well i explained before...its using its system to defeat THE system.
[/quote]

Again. Adapting to its environment and evolving into a different strain of influenza. Its system arises out of mutation that leads to its prosperity. The system was not always there. It evolved over time. 

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I have no idea how to sift throught that, or even read it.  Zach.

---

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

Flu shots. 

Ah..i love that one

The bodys ability to learn how to fight an illness is not evolution. Its adapting to its bio-surroundings. Try again.



Its kind of like when a bug grows resistence to a certain pesticide. Its adapting to survive. Not evolving over time into more complex beings. And also, alot of your bugs dont pass down pesticide resistance in a benefitiary amount. Usualy less is carried down. If the oppisite were true, Id say wed be praticly waging war with super-bugs. 

That's not even what I meant. But, it actually is an example of evolution. Evolution and adaptation are practically synonymous in Biology. When  a species adapts to survive against something it has become a more complex organism. 

I meant the fact that you need a new flu shot every year is a good example of evolution, because the flu virus (and viruses in general) mutate constantly. 

Ah..so evolution is when something becomes more complex? Thats like syaing Christianity is when someone does the right thing. Evolution has its own belief system, but yes in evolution it includes the truth that things become more adaptable and complex, but that doesent turn them into different animals all togather. I mean all the bug is doing is using what it ALREADY has to adapt. Nothing new is being added, its the system that the bug has to fend off a pesticide. Kind of like whe we learn. Were not evolving are we? The bug is learning how to survive, i mean sure its not they go to mortality school or anything but they have some God Goven system that at least mimics learning.  But back to my main point, Evolution isnt just when an animal becomes more complex. It has to account for its origin, and if weve dug up an evolving species in the making. Just like in christianity, its not just the doing good stuff, its the scientific and historical understanding as it has held up for thousands of years since the beginning stages of time.

And you know, we mutate alot too....not like we evolve.


Thank You. 

I really think you overestimate what evolution is, so I'll reexplain it. 

Evolution, in strict biological terms, is the change in allele frequency over time. By this definition, evolution is an indisputable fact. Kind of like gravity. You have gravity as an undeniable fact, and you have gravity as a theory. The theory of gravity has the same goal as the theory of evolution. Explaining why gravity exists, and why it behaves the way it does. The theory of evolution explains very well that not only did life evolve, but it tells us through what processes, like natural selection, artificial selection, mutation, and genetic drift. If you want to debate against the theory of evolution, you need to debate against the ideas of mutation, genetic drift, natural selection, and artificial selection. 

Maybe, MAYBE in the strictist of biological terms somewhere down the line does evolution pick up the definitionw hich it does not mean. Because Zach is going on about "Evolution is this" and "Evolutionis that" yet he said nothing about alleles. So what is it then? Is it Adaptation? Planet of The Apes? Soup People?  Origin or Species? Racisim? What is it exactly?

Adaptation is a part of the theory of evolution. 

---

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

"AlphaT" wrote:

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:

Flu shots. 

Ah..i love that one

The bodys ability to learn how to fight an illness is not evolution. Its adapting to its bio-surroundings. Try again.



Its kind of like when a bug grows resistence to a certain pesticide. Its adapting to survive. Not evolving over time into more complex beings. And also, alot of your bugs dont pass down pesticide resistance in a benefitiary amount. Usualy less is carried down. If the oppisite were true, Id say wed be praticly waging war with super-bugs. 

That's not even what I meant. But, it actually is an example of evolution. Evolution and adaptation are practically synonymous in Biology. When  a species adapts to survive against something it has become a more complex organism. 

I meant the fact that you need a new flu shot every year is a good example of evolution, because the flu virus (and viruses in general) mutate constantly. 

Ah..so evolution is when something becomes more complex? Thats like syaing Christianity is when someone does the right thing. Evolution has its own belief system, but yes in evolution it includes the truth that things become more adaptable and complex, but that doesent turn them into different animals all togather. I mean all the bug is doing is using what it ALREADY has to adapt. Nothing new is being added, its the system that the bug has to fend off a pesticide. Kind of like whe we learn. Were not evolving are we? The bug is learning how to survive, i mean sure its not they go to mortality school or anything but they have some God Goven system that at least mimics learning.  But back to my main point, Evolution isnt just when an animal becomes more complex. It has to account for its origin, and if weve dug up an evolving species in the making. Just like in christianity, its not just the doing good stuff, its the scientific and historical understanding as it has held up for thousands of years since the beginning stages of time.

And you know, we mutate alot too....not like we evolve.


Thank You. 

I really think you overestimate what evolution is, so I'll reexplain it. 

Evolution, in strict biological terms, is the change in allele frequency over time. By this definition, evolution is an indisputable fact. Kind of like gravity. You have gravity as an undeniable fact, and you have gravity as a theory. The theory of gravity has the same goal as the theory of evolution. Explaining why gravity exists, and why it behaves the way it does. The theory of evolution explains very well that not only did life evolve, but it tells us through what processes, like natural selection, artificial selection, mutation, and genetic drift. If you want to debate against the theory of evolution, you need to debate against the ideas of mutation, genetic drift, natural selection, and artificial selection. 

Maybe, MAYBE in the strictist of biological terms somewhere down the line does evolution pick up the definitionw hich it does not mean. Because Zach is going on about "Evolution is this" and "Evolutionis that" yet he said nothing about alleles. So what is it then? Is it Adaptation? Planet of The Apes? Soup People?  Origin or Species? Racisim? What is it exactly?

Adaptation is a part of the theory of evolution. 

Okay we got the border peice of the jigsaw puzzle.Some of what evolution consists of is true, but they just cant mix. Like Soup People.

---

Cool, i would love to see a fossil with fish legs..see thing is evolutionists either say that we havent found any evidence like that, or that we cant because they didnt survive long enough to be fossilized. And this is real world debates that i have been to. Not making it up.

But we do have fossils with a fish eating a fish, and ones with grass on a mammoths tusk. Or ones with red cells still on a dino.

Tiktaalik. Ventastega.

Survival of The Fittest, not Arrival of The Fittest. They were already black moths existing, they didnt just turn black, they were already black. Got it?

I don't even.

durrhurr

They were always black? lol. Because that black moth has always been here forever. I gotcha. Certainly has nothing to do with it adapting to its surroundings.

And yet..out of all of those bad mutations, one or two come in. And we get this one cell, that makes it way past all of htis to grow legs, and then  a tail. Without it being utterly destroyed from the start or early stages. And remember i said utterly.

Yes...?

Yeah, i forgot how much LUCY destroyed my theory. Try Again.

That really... didn't have anything to do with anything, considering Lucy is very close (or really, just IS) to our common ancestor. 

By the way, you're not even using theories. There's a difference between "guess" and scientific theory.

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Okay we got the border peice of the jigsaw puzzle.Some of what evolution consists of is true, but they just cant mix. Like Soup People.

"Soup People"

Really? 

I have no idea how to sift throught that, or even read it.  Zach.

That sucks, because I'm not going to fix formatting issues that arise from you playing games inside the quotations. For the third time. Deal with it.

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