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Politics and Religion

What are the evidence and proof of your current religion?

Posted By:
Mrawsomegamer
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Posted about 4 years ago
The church Parish and the Bible. They have been round for ages. They must be proof. 

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Posted about 4 years ago

"Mrawsomegamer" wrote:

The church Parish and the Bible. They have been round for ages. They must be proof. 

Just because they've been there for a long time does not mean it's a proof of something.

The most obvious examples could be the length of time how long we thought the world to be flat -- as I pointed out in the original post - or even that how we acknowledged earth to be a stationary planet and did not circle around the sun; we thought it was the complete opposite while citing bible to amend it as a fact.

“Personal experience makes a believer out of anyone; that explains the hordes of evolution deniers.”


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Posted about 4 years ago
Again, you don't have to disprove the opponent's claims as long as you can prove the contradictory position is true, because 2 conflicting things cannot be true at once. This is made extremely clear in my analogy. If you prove the sky is green, then you have disproved every other claim regarding its color. It's not your job, with an established position, to refute someone's new ideas. If an opposing theory to evolution arises, it's not those in support in evolution's job to disprove everything the other side said. It's the job of the other side to provide enough contradictory evidence to make it clear that some part, or all parts, of evolution are false.


“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


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Posted about 4 years ago
Oh yeah, I've totally forgotten to address the OP.

There is no evidence and proof of any religion.

There. As if I hadn't made it clear enough as it is Tongue Out 

“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


Posted By:
AlphaT
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Posted about 4 years ago

"-Zachary-" wrote:

Again, you don't have to disprove the opponent's claims as long as you can prove the contradictory position is true, because 2 conflicting things cannot be true at once. This is made extremely clear in my analogy. If you prove the sky is green, then you have disproved every other claim regarding its color. It's not your job, with an established position, to refute someone's new ideas. If an opposing theory to evolution arises, it's not those in support in evolution's job to disprove everything the other side said. It's the job of the other side to provide enough contradictory evidence to make it clear that some part, or all parts, of evolution are false.


Its not about the accountability or who's job it is. Its about creating a reasonable portfolio for your particular theory, and making it seem more reasonable by refuting another persons claims. The quote was very serious on this. But complete refutation is impossible. We just don't know that much. It just makes your claim more reasonable and more acceptable if you can refute somewhat of other theories. Which Is why you have Creation vs. Evolution Theory, The Bible vs. The Koran, Plate Tectonics vs. Hydro Plate, and others. It is implementing your belief's positive by using a mediator of the two to both somewhat prove your claim and to somewhat disprove another's claim for good measure. But to answer the original post lol, there is no evidence for religion to be true. The big ones are Christianity and some forms of Atheism implement that have the most proof.  


Posted By:
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Posted about 4 years ago
Its not about the accountability or who's job it is.


That's exactly what it's about.

It has nothing to do with disproving other people's claims, that comes as a byproduct of proving what is actually true. As an example, and yet again, the atheist isn't in a position where he can disprove the existence of God. The problem is for theists to prove that there is a God, which, if it were found to be true, would disprove the opposition. You don't seek out to disprove the opposition, you seek to prove that your idea is true, nothing more. If you're trying to disprove evolution, the only means of going about that are to prove that some other hypothesis is correct and contradictory to what evolution states is true. 

This has, once again, gone back to it being impossible to prove a negative in the sense we're talking. It's not the skeptic's job to disprove, it's the supporter's job to prove. Not going to repeat that again. 

“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


Posted By:
AlphaT
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Posted about 4 years ago

"-Zachary-" wrote:


Its not about the accountability or who's job it is.


That's exactly what it's about.

It has nothing to do with disproving other people's claims, that comes as a byproduct of proving what is actually true. As an example, and yet again, the atheist isn't in a position where he can disprove the existence of God. The problem is for theists to prove that there is a God, which, if it were found to be true, would disprove the opposition. You don't seek out to disprove the opposition, you seek to prove that your idea is true, nothing more. If you're trying to disprove evolution, the only means of going about that are to prove that some other hypothesis is correct and contradictory to what evolution states is true. 

This has, once again, gone back to it being impossible to prove a negative in the sense we're talking. It's not the skeptic's job to disprove, it's the supporter's job to prove. Not going to repeat that again. 
lol you used only one of my sentences but, okay. But seriously, what are you talking about..that's what I meant. We each have to disprove somewhat of an opposing rival to better enhance our argument. If you have evidence, and another person has supposed evidence, you two have to clash because like you said, two things cant be right at the same time. I'm also not stating that you have to disprove all beliefs to make yours true, because I said that this doesn't apply to absolutes. But however, im taking this in a broad form, not just "Is it the atheists place to disprove something", because even that claim is flawed, You see, by using that logic, I can make up evidence and make up a belief and don't even have to hear what anyone else has to say for it to be true. Thing is, theres always someone there who has some stated claim that opposes yours. That's a fact of life. So, you must always have your facts in track, but you also must be ready to refute another's claim that they use to disprove you, and have claims to disprove another person. That's debating 101. But im not saying that you can prove the non-existence of something, that's an absolute, but you should have In your arsenal certain apologetics not only for what you believe in, but for a person's opposing beliefs, and have a case for why they are wrong. Weather it be lack of evidence or incorrect facts etc. but you always have to have these. Now the reason why I am repeating this over and over is because im taking X, turning it to beliefs, and now I will demonstrate it to Atheism and other theories. Evolutionists should have in their logbook so to speak, facts and evidence that support what their particular belief is, and for people who do not agree with them, have some sort of evidence for why they are incorrect to better present your theory as fact, not necessarily making it absolute truth. But for any theory out there, it has counter theories, and the only way to get from theory to fact is to not only show why your right, but also show to better hype your claim why others are wrong. Get it now? Im not saying that its an atheists duty, or job, to disprove every other religion or belief against them, im just saying that they need evidence for what they believe, and also some refutation or evidence against what someone else believes. Do you get it now? Im not talking about who's job it is, im saying we share the life responsibility of both sides of the story, plaintiff and defendant for example. Im not going to repeat that again....


Posted By:
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Posted about 4 years ago
Im not talking about who's job it is, im saying we share the life responsibility of both sides of the story,


Contradictory. 

Im not saying that its an atheists duty, or job, to disprove every other religion or belief against them, im just saying that they need evidence for what they believe, and also some refutation or evidence against what someone else believes


Contradictory. The only evidence to support the atheist's claim that God doesn't exist is the non-existence of evidence that he does exist, which is what theists have to provide to assert their claims. 

Evolutionists should have in their logbook so to speak, facts and evidence that support what their particular belief is, and for people who do not agree with them, have some sort of evidence for why they are incorrect to better present your theory as fact,


Refer to last post.

lol you used only one of my sentences but, okay.


Because everything else was nonsense that I still addressed, despite only quoting one part.

We each have to disprove somewhat of an opposing rival to better enhance our argument. If you have evidence, and another person has supposed evidence, you two have to clash


Refer to last post.



Stop bringing up absolutes. They have nothing to do with what we're discussing here, at all. We're discussing practical truths because there are things that we have evidence for and can say with the closest to absolute certainty are true (such as various scientific theories). No one here is claiming to have absolute truths. 

But however, im taking this in a broad form, not just "Is it the atheists place to disprove something", because even that claim is flawed,


I've been saying that the entire time. 

but you also must be ready to refute another's claim that they use to disprove you


Refer to previous post.

To be honest, I'd be incredibly surprised and impressed if you could even explain what your argument / problem is in a coherent, and especially brief manner. 



“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


Posted By:
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Posted about 4 years ago

"-Zachary-" wrote:


 


Contradictory. 

Please explain



Contradictory. The only evidence to support the atheist's claim that God doesn't exist is the non-existence of evidence that he does exist, which is what theists have to provide to assert their claims. 

You keep using that loophole. But im going to plainly, and simply, say you're wrong. Atheists have many of arguments of why God is false, mostly because they use The Bible or the religious book of whatever God they refer to. get it? Atheists supposedly have two ways of running things. One, they will make a case for what they believe, two they will try to rival against another religion and point out the stated flaws in their belief that will come to a conclusion that an absolute has to be flawless, and a flaw will hinder the argument moot and void. Well, most atheist anyway.   Its not like Atheists are at the top of the castle, and everyone is climbing to the top just to present their claim, and then all the atheists have to do is make up something to falsify that claim. It doesn't work like that. And plus i already said that i wasn't just talking about Atheists. This is belief in general.




 


Because everything else was nonsense that I still addressed, despite only quoting one part.

Dont say its nonsense just because it disagrees with what your stating.



Stop bringing up absolutes. They have nothing to do with what we're discussing here, at all. We're discussing practical truths because there are things that we have evidence for and can say with the closest to absolute certainty are true (such as various scientific theories). No one here is claiming to have absolute truths. 

But your claim is based on somewhat that we cannot disprove something fully. In any logic like the one you are using, absolutes have to be addressed and removed. And plus you cant say with the closest to absolute, you can say to the closest of the absolute that we can reach, but we don't even know .000001 percent of anything.


 


I've been saying that the entire time. 

I kind of justified what i meant in the lines following but, good choice. Disregard justification.



 


Refer to previous post.

What is it with this 'refer to previous post'? Thats what i was refering to, and explained using what you are throwing back to the previous post.


To be honest, I'd be incredibly surprised and impressed if you could even explain what your argument / problem is in a coherent, and especially brief manner.


In some cases, you cant condense perfection.


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Posted about 4 years ago
Yeah, okay. I've addressed everything you said there several times already. If you can't even explain your 'perfect' argument in a concise and brief manner, it's because you don't understand it. You're not going to get another reply from me until you can actually do that. 


“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


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