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Politics and Religion

Just a quick question

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Posted By:
Vertigo_2009544 Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
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Posted almost 4 years ago
I'm not going to debate with any of you because I have better ways to waste my time.

Be honest with me, what makes Jehovah (The Catholic god) so much more real than the Greek or Egyptian gods? Or what about the Hindu, the Muslim, or the Jewish gods?

If your argument is, "GOD MADE US AND IF YOU DON'T LOVE HIM YOU GO TO HELL!!!"
I don't particularly want to hear it.

I would like a reasonable and thought-out explanation. 


Posted By:
AlphaT
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Posted almost 4 years ago
Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Posted By:
-KellinQuinnsAngel-_2431769 Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"AlphaT" wrote:

Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


There is a ridiculous amount of sources that point out many contradictions. Because every single religious text has them.

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Posted By:
Teh_Skittlez_1249024 Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"AlphaT" wrote:

Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"






Posted By:
-Zachary- Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
-Zachary-
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:



"AlphaT" wrote:


Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"







But but some of those are old testament!!

“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


Posted By:
Teh_Skittlez_1249024 Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
Teh_Skittlez_1249024
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"-Zachary-" wrote:



"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:






"AlphaT" wrote:




Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"




 


But but some of those are old testament!!


Matthew 5:18-19
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus makes it pretty clear that the old testament is still entirely valid, and therfore fair game for debate. (lol shellfish) 

Posted By:
-Zachary- Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
-Zachary-
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:



"-Zachary-" wrote:






"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:









"AlphaT" wrote:






Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"




 


But but some of those are old testament!!


Matthew 5:18-19
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus makes it pretty clear that the old testament is still entirely valid, and therfore fair game for debate. (lol shellfish) 


Yeah I never really understood the christian reasoning for saying that Old Testament stuff was invalid. I've heard pretty frequently that it's just 'cause God wasn't cool back then, being a total meanie by flooding the world and, you know, allowing sin into the world and what have you. But then I guess he got nice-nice in the New Testament with Jesus, even though that's where the whole "burning for eternity" thing came from, IIRC.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Christians buy into some, if I remember right, Old Testament stories. Jonah and the whale, david and goliath, etc. Probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting. 

“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


Posted By:
Teh_Skittlez_1249024 Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
Teh_Skittlez_1249024
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"-Zachary-" wrote:



"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:






"-Zachary-" wrote:









"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:












"AlphaT" wrote:








Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"




 


But but some of those are old testament!!


Matthew 5:18-19
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus makes it pretty clear that the old testament is still entirely valid, and therfore fair game for debate. (lol shellfish) 


Yeah I never really understood the christian reasoning for saying that Old Testament stuff was invalid. I've heard pretty frequently that it's just 'cause God wasn't cool back then, being a total meanie by flooding the world and, you know, allowing sin into the world and what have you. But then I guess he got nice-nice in the New Testament with Jesus, even though that's where the whole "burning for eternity" thing came from, IIRC.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Christians buy into some, if I remember right, Old Testament stories. Jonah and the whale, david and goliath, etc. Probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting. 


I just don't see how God can be not cool, and then cool. Why would he just change? He's God. He's supposed to be perfect. If he's perfect, change is unnecessary because he is already the best possible outcome.

Yeah, it's just that all the old testament morals are supposed to be null, except for the randomly chosen ones that still apply for no real reason. 

Posted By:
-Zachary- Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
-Zachary-
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:



"-Zachary-" wrote:






"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:









"-Zachary-" wrote:












"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:















"AlphaT" wrote:










Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"




 


But but some of those are old testament!!


Matthew 5:18-19
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus makes it pretty clear that the old testament is still entirely valid, and therfore fair game for debate. (lol shellfish) 


Yeah I never really understood the christian reasoning for saying that Old Testament stuff was invalid. I've heard pretty frequently that it's just 'cause God wasn't cool back then, being a total meanie by flooding the world and, you know, allowing sin into the world and what have you. But then I guess he got nice-nice in the New Testament with Jesus, even though that's where the whole "burning for eternity" thing came from, IIRC.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Christians buy into some, if I remember right, Old Testament stories. Jonah and the whale, david and goliath, etc. Probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting. 


I just don't see how God can be not cool, and then cool. Why would he just change? He's God. He's supposed to be perfect. If he's perfect, change is unnecessary because he is already the best possible outcome.

Yeah, it's just that all the old testament morals are supposed to be null, except for the randomly chosen ones that still apply for no real reason. 


You just don't understand, man. He's beyond our human understanding. Who do you think you are? God? Huh? Is that it? 

“Mutual caring relationships require kindness and patience, tolerance, optimism, joy in the other's achievements, confidence in oneself, and the ability to give without undue thought of gain.”


Posted By:
Teh_Skittlez_1249024 Lock e1691472cafece64304be81c5c9c507a93800d3a6cd5948297266277351b71ef
Teh_Skittlez_1249024
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Posted almost 4 years ago

"-Zachary-" wrote:



"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:






"-Zachary-" wrote:









"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:












"-Zachary-" wrote:















"Teh_Skittlez" wrote:


















"AlphaT" wrote:












Well, Jehovah is not just the Catholic God...It's the Christian God too. One of the main evidences Is that The Bible, God's Inspired Book, is infallible. "You can say the same thing for The Quran". Yes, you can state that, but it's not true, since there are contradictions in The Quran. I, along with the many other people I have debated on here, on other places, and in real life, have found no contradictions that cannot be explained in The Bible.


Because you now have access to all the information in the universe to judge that there is not a single piece of information in the bible that is not inaccurate? If there were information that you didn't know that were to contradict the bible, you wouldn't know it. We can assume there is information that we don't know that contradicts ideas we hold because for everyone, it has happened numerous times. It happens for most ideas we hold at some point or another. Are the opinions we hold on theology exempt? Of course not. To hold the opinion that you've revised your opinion to absolute infallibility after being on this planet for not even 20 years, is possibly the most intellectually dishonest thing we can tell ourselves. I'm not suggesting we all go and change our opinions because they're wrong. They're our opinions. There are reasons we hold them. We believe them to be true, but we should also be able to acknowledge that we are human and our interpretations are subject to error, even if you believe your god not to be. 

As for biblical contradictions...
Exodus 15:3
"The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name."

Romans 15:33
"The God of peace be with you all. Amen."

This isn't a contradiction in and of itself. It shows two different sides of the character God, one being warlike, one being peaceful. It shows a distinct change. Maybe not in character, but at least in personality or attitude. It shows that he changes his mind about things. However, it is a contradiction when you add a third verse.

Numbers 23:19 
"God is not human, that he should lie,
not a human being, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill?"




 


But but some of those are old testament!!


Matthew 5:18-19
"For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus makes it pretty clear that the old testament is still entirely valid, and therfore fair game for debate. (lol shellfish) 


Yeah I never really understood the christian reasoning for saying that Old Testament stuff was invalid. I've heard pretty frequently that it's just 'cause God wasn't cool back then, being a total meanie by flooding the world and, you know, allowing sin into the world and what have you. But then I guess he got nice-nice in the New Testament with Jesus, even though that's where the whole "burning for eternity" thing came from, IIRC.

Not only that, but I'm pretty sure Christians buy into some, if I remember right, Old Testament stories. Jonah and the whale, david and goliath, etc. Probably a bunch of others I'm forgetting. 


I just don't see how God can be not cool, and then cool. Why would he just change? He's God. He's supposed to be perfect. If he's perfect, change is unnecessary because he is already the best possible outcome.

Yeah, it's just that all the old testament morals are supposed to be null, except for the randomly chosen ones that still apply for no real reason. 


You just don't understand, man. He's beyond our human understanding. Who do you think you are? God? Huh? Is that it? 


Of course, I thought it was already well known that I was God. I have small island somewhere in the middle of the pacific ocean that worships me. I think they call it Australia. 

But actually, that's another one that genuinely bothers me. If we as humans are so complex that we demand a perfect deity that is beyond our comprehension to create us as an explanation. If we warrant this kind of explanation, what kind of explanation does the perfect deity warrant? And why do we not ask more? 

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