There are no reasons for him not to show himself but he decide to do so. That is actually the only evidence needed to prove God existence."lka" wrote:
It's as if you are holding that as the only evidence to believe, because God is free willing to do so or not, and we recon that seeing something isn't the sole evidence to believe."-Ramones-" wrote:
Why don't God reply to them in words?"lka" wrote:
If someone is asking God for something, praying, then he is seeking an answer from God, wanting a reply, I don't mean verbal words but any kind of reply to whatever that was asked."-Ramones-" wrote:
Seek his answer? What do you mean by that?"lka" wrote:
Why do you ask God for things when he already knows what you want? because God ask people to pray and ask him and seek his answer.
Politics and Religion
Express Your Faith
Talk with others about your beliefs. Discuss your religion but no trashing other peoples religious views. Please be respectful.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
no reason for God to do so? and how do you know that?. It's the only evidence that you think prove God existence."-Ramones-" wrote:
There are no reasons for him not to show himself but he decide to do so. That is actually the only evidence needed to prove God existence."lka" wrote:
It's as if you are holding that as the only evidence to believe, because God is free willing to do so or not, and we recon that seeing something isn't the sole evidence to believe."-Ramones-" wrote:
Why don't God reply to them in words?"lka" wrote:
If someone is asking God for something, praying, then he is seeking an answer from God, wanting a reply, I don't mean verbal words but any kind of reply to whatever that was asked."-Ramones-" wrote:
Seek his answer? What do you mean by that?"lka" wrote:
Why do you ask God for things when he already knows what you want? because God ask people to pray and ask him and seek his answer.
Death has not missed the man, like a loosen rope gets fold by hand.
My opinion is right, possible to be wrong. and your opinion is wrong, possible to be right.
Truth is never over estimated.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
Do people believe in him? Yes. But are people curious over his existence? Of course. Can he show himself to the World? Yes. Can he change the World? Yes. There are many reason for him to show himself but he did not do so. Do you have any reason for why he shouldn't show himself? Yes, I do think and know that that's the only reason for him to even prove his existence to the World. Not just me but others think that way as well. People pray to him when he already know what people want. People believe in him and some don't believe in him when he can make everyone believe in him. People say that Satan is the one that ruin people minds but why did God create Satan when he can see what will happen in the future? God create Satan to ruin human minds, true? God is someone who hold great abilities but somehow Satan is still here in this World ruining people's mind. Religion is something that is created by people in order to escape the fear of death. Religion is created by human. If all human is God son, what makes Jesus so special? [I understand you're not Christian and this question isn't toward you] I respect your belief, i just don't understand why people worship someone who doesn't show his existence to people."lka" wrote:
no reason for God to do so? and how do you know that?. It's the only evidence that you think prove God existence."-Ramones-" wrote:
There are no reasons for him not to show himself but he decide to do so. That is actually the only evidence needed to prove God existence."lka" wrote:
It's as if you are holding that as the only evidence to believe, because God is free willing to do so or not, and we recon that seeing something isn't the sole evidence to believe."-Ramones-" wrote:
Why don't God reply to them in words?"lka" wrote:
If someone is asking God for something, praying, then he is seeking an answer from God, wanting a reply, I don't mean verbal words but any kind of reply to whatever that was asked."-Ramones-" wrote:
Seek his answer? What do you mean by that?"lka" wrote:
Why do you ask God for things when he already knows what you want? because God ask people to pray and ask him and seek his answer.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
A. (?)
B. Back then, slaves were different than the slaves during the 1800s. It would be the same as someone hiring a housekeeper.
C. Sin separates us from God. To have fellowship we needed a sacrifice. That's why the animal sacrificed had to be the best and without defect. Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice; no one could have died in His place because He was without sin.
D.If you told someone you did something amazing for them and they didn't believe or thank you, how would you feel?
E. He wants us to acknowledge that we need His help. Just because we know someone is our friend, does that mean we don't have to talk to them?
F. Who knows? It's part of His plan, it's for a reason.
G. I'm not sure why He did this; I can ask my Bible teachers at school and post their answers.
H. I hope this makes sense the way I'm explaining this, but they didn't have the entire Bible to read and see God's goodness in that the way we do today. God had to perform miracles to show Himself to them so they could believe and trust in Him. Also, Jesus hadn't died yet (He died after the Old Testament). His death is the main belief of Christianity, and we need to have faith and believe that He did.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
There are many reason for him to show himself but he did not do so. Do you have any reason for why he shouldn't show himself?
It's a test not to have blind faith,no, but for one to use his intellect..
Yes, I do think and know that that's the only reason for him to even prove his existence to the World.Not just me but other think that way as well.
You do understand that we have very opposed views, and with others as well.
People pray to him when he already know what people want.
God asked for people to pray to him, It's an act of worship. I believe it makes one closer to God and for me even gives peace.
People believe in him and some don't believe in him when he can make everyone believe in him.
then what's the point of having no free will? you don't get to have any believes of your choice, then what's the point of feeling absolutely nothing, when a person can have the chance to experience and feel his decisions.
People say that Satan is the one that ruin people minds but why did God create Satan when he can see what will happen in the future?
Do I believe Satan exist? Yes. Satan is there, but does that mean that people can't come over such an evil being? No, you undermine human will and power if they decided to do something.
Religion is something that is created by people in order to escape the fear of death.Religion is created by human.
Why would they fear death from the start? because they don't know what's after that? why would people care about what's after death, anyway? you think the primarily purpose after religion is to create answers for questions people don't know the answer for? that doesn't explain the other things religion talks about.
I respect your belief, i just don't understand why people worship someone who doesn't show his existence to people.
and I don't understand why this what you hold as the sole evidence for God existence or the truth about a religion.
Death has not missed the man, like a loosen rope gets fold by hand.
My opinion is right, possible to be wrong. and your opinion is wrong, possible to be right.
Truth is never over estimated.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
That doesn't explain anything. He could show himself but he didn't."lka" wrote:
It's a test not to have blind faith,no, but for one to use his intellect.
You do understand that others also agree with it right?"lka" wrote:
You do understand that we have very opposed views, and with others as well.
Someone pray to him so that they can get closer to God? I've prayed before and i never been closer to him."lka" wrote:
God asked for people to pray to him, It's an act of worship. I believe it makes one closer to God and for me even gives peace.
You do realize that there are no reason at all for God to create Satan right?"lka" wrote:
Do I believe Satan exist? Yes. Satan is there, but does that mean that people can't come over such an evil being? No, you undermine human will and power if they decided to do something.
Religion can be made up a long time ago when human mind isn't much bright. If someone trying to make their own religion, they will be beat up and die. People in the past would believe at anything."lka" wrote:
Why would they fear death from the start? because they don't know what's after that? why would people care about what's after death, anyway? you think the primarily purpose after religion is to create answers for questions people don't know the answer for? that doesn't explain the other things religion talks about.
Because evidence is the only thing needed to make people believe in him but be can't even provide them."lka" wrote:
and I don't understand why this what you hold as the sole evidence for God existence or the truth about a religion.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
@Ika
Sorry for the late reply, I've been/am sick.
Why will the prophets write down their messages? It's not there message, It's the message of God. How would we know for sure that all the prophets were sent to the middle east or just came from there? don't you think that a certain nation in the past didn't believe and didn't preserve any texts about the religion? or none of what was preserved remained today?. God sent prophets-humans- to humans, and we relate to human beings, we can follow their message and understand people like us better.
*His message. I forgot I was arguing from the perspective that God existed. My suggestion is for God to make sure his message is written down in all languages, provide several starting points/prophets for his religion, and make sure future generations would hear about these things. Your god didn't do that because otherwise we'd know about it. Why couldn't God do that and protect his texts from getting mistranslated/altered. If God is omnipotent, he can allow us to understand anything.
I understand that you might not know anything about the Arabic language, but it doesn't mean that you can't appreciate or believe in something without seeing it yourself, It's recurrent reporting, the Qur'an being inimitable, I mean. I'll explain to a satisfying extent God willing.
No, it doesn't, but to understand, appreciate, and believe something which I have not seen, I need a lot of evidence and an extremely detailed description. I haven't gotten those yet.
I agree that there are new writing styles and techniques used for writing. The Qur'an is by itself an independent genre and you can see this genre through tow elements - I'll try to post everything, but it will take a long reply- :
1. rhetorical elements: rhetoric in Islamic/Arabic tradition is defined as conveying the meaning in the best of verbal forms, and rhetorical features include, rhythm, figures of speech, metaphors, rhetorical questions, the repetition of words...etc.
2. Cohesive elements: cohesiveness is the feature used to bend sentences together grammatically and lexically, and it shows how words are linked together to form sentences and sentences to larger unites of speech. It includes phrasal ties, substitution, reference and lexical cohesion...etc.
I read that online already, but it doesn't give me any examples. Telling me it doesn't that isn't going to impress me unless I get more detail.
In the Qur’an we see these two features used together in such a way that they are inspirable. An imitation standard would be to use these two features like it’s used in the Qur’an, interlocked and inspirable.
Whether something is inspirable or not is subjective. As for the two features, sometimes humans reach their limits. We see this is sports; it is scientifically impossible for people to run past a certain speed or juggle more than a certain number of balls. Why shouldn't these limits apply to other things? If the Quran is inimitable, it would only mean that it is the work of an ingenious writer. It still doesn't make me think it's divine or that your God exists.
It’s difficult because using these two elements so perfectly together isn’t seen in other Arabic literature. Ok, here are some books names but I’m not sure if you will find them online:
The Encyclopaedia of Islam, a Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran for John Penrice, and the Event of the Qur’an for K Cragg. I haven’t read everything in them, but I think they are a good start to read about the Qur’an in English.
Perfection is also, to a certain degree, subjective. I might not be able to read those books for a while, but I'll check my school library.
they are not nameless people, many of the people who tried are Arabs like,
Musaylamah, Ibn Al-Mukafa , and Abu'l-Ala Al-Marri and many others.
All the information I can find on those people comes from Islamic sites, and all of it seems to be the same thing repeated.
The Qur'an doesn't come up with codes or paintings and then challenge people to bring something like to it or tell them to ''crack it''. No, the core of the challenge is that although in the Arabic language we have finite letters and grammatical rules and the Qu'ran itself for people to try and imitate it, no one succeed at doing so, this is why It's miraculous.
From my perspective, if the Quran is inimitable, it's only as miraculous as someone reaching the limit on how fast humans can run. Yes, it's amazing, but it's nothing supernatural.
because God ask people to pray and ask him and seek his answer.
What's the point in God telling you to ask him things if he already knows what you want?
"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek proverb
Because of school, I don't have much time to be on KW atm.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
Which is impossible. Lol"-Ramones-" wrote:
There are no reasons for him not to show himself but he decide to do so. That is actually the only evidence needed to prove God existence."lka" wrote:
It's as if you are holding that as the only evidence to believe, because God is free willing to do so or not, and we recon that seeing something isn't the sole evidence to believe."-Ramones-" wrote:
Why don't God reply to them in words?"lka" wrote:
If someone is asking God for something, praying, then he is seeking an answer from God, wanting a reply, I don't mean verbal words but any kind of reply to whatever that was asked."-Ramones-" wrote:
Seek his answer? What do you mean by that?"lka" wrote:
Why do you ask God for things when he already knows what you want? because God ask people to pray and ask him and seek his answer.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
He can't show himself to the world this is a sinful and immoral world, you can't mix light with darkness, you can't mix sin - unclean bodies and spirits with good. It's impossible. That's my view from my belief."-Ramones-" wrote:
Do people believe in him? Yes. But are people curious over his existence? Of course. Can he show himself to the World? Yes. Can he change the World? Yes. There are many reason for him to show himself but he did not do so. Do you have any reason for why he shouldn't show himself? Yes, I do think and know that that's the only reason for him to even prove his existence to the World. Not just me but others think that way as well. People pray to him when he already know what people want. People believe in him and some don't believe in him when he can make everyone believe in him. People say that Satan is the one that ruin people minds but why did God create Satan when he can see what will happen in the future? God create Satan to ruin human minds, true? God is someone who hold great abilities but somehow Satan is still here in this World ruining people's mind. Religion is something that is created by people in order to escape the fear of death. Religion is created by human. If all human is God son, what makes Jesus so special? [I understand you're not Christian and this question isn't toward you] I respect your belief, i just don't understand why people worship someone who doesn't show his existence to people."lka" wrote:
no reason for God to do so? and how do you know that?. It's the only evidence that you think prove God existence."-Ramones-" wrote:
There are no reasons for him not to show himself but he decide to do so. That is actually the only evidence needed to prove God existence."lka" wrote:
It's as if you are holding that as the only evidence to believe, because God is free willing to do so or not, and we recon that seeing something isn't the sole evidence to believe."-Ramones-" wrote:
Why don't God reply to them in words?"lka" wrote:
If someone is asking God for something, praying, then he is seeking an answer from God, wanting a reply, I don't mean verbal words but any kind of reply to whatever that was asked."-Ramones-" wrote:
Seek his answer? What do you mean by that?"lka" wrote:
Why do you ask God for things when he already knows what you want? because God ask people to pray and ask him and seek his answer.
Questions for Christians and Jews (continued)
No, Ozi, it's not impossible. If God is omnipotent, then it can't be impossible.
Because maybe if I use caps, people will take me more seriously.
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